Changes to PoE's Passive Skill Tree

In this thread I would like to discuss a change about the passive skill tree, the thought process behind this and the changes needed to make this kind of idea work.

What is this about?

As I played through Path of Exile and discussed with players how the passive skill tree interacts with the game, I encountered problems while planning my characters. First of all, since all characters start at a different area, some builds were a lot more viable on this or that side of the tree or exclusive to a specific class. While this opens up for build diversity and potential double-themed skill trees, it limits every class to fit it in a certain role.

The Idea:

All characters start at the same position, the passive tree gets 6 different sections with unique keystone abilities which still represent the class:

http://abload.de/img/thewheelofawesomenesstxupu.jpg

Life/Energy Shield:

Obligatory. Life and Energy Shield should be parted from each other, so that on one side of this category are energy shield only nodes while on the other side are life-based nodes. I am unsure if these nodes can be accessed if one has specified a route to take.

Vaal Pact will still be accessible for both, it will be moved in another category, for example: Utility, mirrored on both sides.

Elemental/Spell Damage:

All Elemental Status Effects and Spell damage increases should be in this category. Each element has an own category, while chaos damage will be in the middle of that tree, easy accessible from the beginning. All other elements will be around that chaos damage nodes. Damage over time is also included. Critical strike nodes are included here, but are specified as either elemental or spell critical strike and do not increase the overall critical strike chance/multiplier.

Defense:

Splitted up in 2 categories, Evasion and Armour. Resistance nodes are present on both sides.

Mana:

This includes +increased maximum mana nodes, aura passives and increased buff duration.

Utility:

To make this area viable to get, it also includes attack speed and cast speed nodes, so this category is splitted in half. Both have charges (frenzy/endurance/power charges). Movement speed is available for both. Curse Keystones fit in here, too.

Physical Damage:

Well, the category name is pretty much what this category represents: All physical damage increases fit in here. Here, one can find increases specific for one weapon (axe, sword) or category of weapons (one-handed, two-handed, dual wielding).

Thought process behind this sections:

In my experience, people will now tell me that this structure will prevent build diversity. While this may be true at first glance, we already have a low diversity of builds.

Since all characters can now use the middle as a starting point, there is more balancing behind those classes. The Scion class does not fit in here anymore. For the other classes, I would recommend that you can still pick those predefined classes. If a new character now enters the skill tree with the first character, categories which fit the attributes have a decent glow on them. This would make skilling a character easier and give a little tutorial to newer players while still retaining the complexity of your own skill favorites. The scion class could be a fully customizable character, unlocked on the first play through of merciless act 3. The player can now customize gender and look of that character.

Balancing

To compensate for this now easier to access skill tree, the following clue came up to my mind. The idea is very simple: The first skills the character can access are the ones with the lowest efficiency compared to upcoming nodes. This way, there will be no overpowered builds just because they take something from every section. In the middle of each section will be the nodes with the highest efficiency, then the efficiency goes down again since the player is now reaching the keystones for his/her build. The placement of these keystones will be pretty hard to balance, their location in the different sections is crucial.

I made a simple graph to explain how this is going to work in theory:

http://abload.de/img/diaroe2htlsva.jpg

Since the Skill Tree now has a hexagonal shape, one can now add a graph to evaluate each section. For instance:

http://abload.de/img/thewheelofawesomenesss3u75.jpg

As one can easily see: this class is marauder-oriented. In the middle is a diagram showing how high the percentage of each section is. The amount of skill points is also showed there if you mouse-over the hexagon in the middle. Each "stage" of the tree is indicated by 20%, in this case: Life: 100%, Physical Damage: 80%, Utility (Attack Speed): 60%, Defense (Armour, Resistance): 100%

One can now follow the progress of the skill tree every time the character levels up, which gives the character a visual feedback as he/she progresses other than the effect of nodes presented in the game.

Overall, players still need to invest some time to see which builds are viable and how to progress through each tree. The tree itself will be as complex as it is now but one does not have to go through all these +10 STR/DEX/INT nodes in order to get to a certain keystone or double passive node. This will clean up the image of the skill tree, thus making it user-friendly while still retaining the "tinkerer"-component.

I would like to get some feedback on this idea, preferably from all ranges of players - be it hardcore or casual gamers with a lower time investment. Maybe someone from GGG had an identical idea and this was not implemented simply because it didn't fit their mindset. Clarification on that would be very nice.

If you've reached this point, thank you for reading through these ideas!

I just noticed that the image of the diagram gives a false impression, the green triangle should be cut in half since the marauder build would only stack attack speed nodes, not the cast speed nodes on the other side. This will be corrected soon.

Bump, Feedback is greatly appreciated

Bump

The only advantage I see in your whole suggestion is being able to play any character "skin" with any build.

But I disagree with the reasons you presented.

It is good that there is flavor in each class you pick.
Your suggestion removes classes and with it alot of flavor.

The improvements the passive tree needs are deeply tied to the improvements the skill usage itself needs.

There is too much of a focus on spamming a single overlinked skill.
Changes to the passive tree should be made to address that and encourage more diverse skill usage.

"

As I played through Path of Exile and discussed with players how the passive skill tree interacts with the game, I encountered problems while planning my characters. First of all, since all characters start at a different area, some builds were a lot more viable on this or that side of the tree or exclusive to a specific class. While this opens up for build diversity and potential double-themed skill trees, it limits every class to fit it in a certain role.

Not completely true.

Some classes excel at certain builds, but any class can do so. If I want to make an Aura build, the best one to do so is the Scion, but any class can do this. This does not mean that certain classes always fall into certain rolls. The players that want to make the best of their character will use this class for that build, but it does not limit what each class can do.

"

All characters start at the same position, the passive tree gets 6 different sections with unique keystone abilities which still represent the class:

I do especially like this idea, and the picture you link. However, this completely defeats the purpose of character selection. So long as PoE has classes, this will never be done.

Alternatively, GGG can remove the classes, revamp the skill tree, and allow players to customize their character. Not necessarily custom models, but GGG could slowly expand more and more character options such as height, weight, preset features, and so forth. This is something that many players want and this would be a nice way to implement it.

The only real drawback is that no single class would be best for any build, and it would only come down to passive node allocation. One summoner might have 6% more life in the skill tree while the other has 8% more mana. The only difference besides that is one looks like a beefy Marauder and the other looks like a Ranger.

"

Obligatory. Life and Energy Shield should be parted from each other, so that on one side of this category are energy shield only nodes while on the other side are life-based nodes. I am unsure if these nodes can be accessed if one has specified a route to take.

This would be hard to do. If going for life prevents you from effectively obtaining energy shield, this suggestion has absolutely no chance. GGG obviously wants players to try life/energy shield hybrid builds, but so few are done, and never as true hybrids.

One thing that could be done is that there is a general node leading into life, life/es, and es. Life nodes would have 8% life, es would have 8% es, and life/es would have 4% life/es.

Overall I like the idea of a general skill tree with a singular and global starting place for all "classes". The main advantage is that it would allow true hybrids of various things. I highly doubt it will be implemented.

"The problem with Starcraft is that the three races — Protoss, Terran, and Zerg — are too different. To alleviate problems players have with devising strategies, all three races should be given units which are mechanically identical, and only graphically divergent... in other words, what Blizzard did with Warcraft 2."

Hell. No.

Let x be an arbitrarily large number.
-x

"

"The problem with Starcraft is that the three races — Protoss, Terran, and Zerg — are too different. To alleviate problems players have with devising strategies, all three races should be given units which are mechanically identical, and only graphically divergent... in other words, what Blizzard did with Warcraft 2."

Hell. No.

Let x be an arbitrarily large number.
-x

Wait... Starcraft: Real time strategy game relying on different units and tactics.
PoE: ARPG relying on skill gems and certain nodes to kill enemy AI.

One does not simply compare 2 games which appereantly have nothing to do with eachother.

If all classes had a unique skill tree, this would be a good reason to defeat the passive skill tree. But since only the starting area differ from each other, this is no counterargument to my suggestion. Sure, some classes are dedicated to one playstyle, but since the introduction of the scion class, basically every other class can be interchangeable played with a gameplay which was "not intended".

"

R201 a écrit :

One does not simply compare 2 games which apparently have nothing to do with each other.

Take out the "apparently," and then: no, one does not.

"

Take out the "apparently," and then: no, one does not.

I really don't know what you want in this thread, I am aware of the fact that this idea is contradictory to the class-system. I just don't feel like classes are so "different" in the first place. Beside the look and placement of skill nodes, as of right now, everyone just seeks the best nodes near his class to get for a certain build.