[2.4] LA vs. Tornado Shot vs. KB

Sup guys,
I am debating on what build to make for the Softcore league in 2.4. Currently I am between Lightning Arrow, Tornado Shot, and Kinetic Blast.

What I Am Looking For In The Build In Order of Importance

- Ranged, not melee
- Able to consistently kill t15+ map bosses
- Fast clear speed
- Doable on a new league without mirror gear
- Would be nice if the build had some way to deal with reflect mods
- I would like to try to kill Uber Atziri at some point. The above items are far more important to me than this one though.

Can anyone who is experienced with these skills perhaps give me some pros/cons of centering a build around them? Which of the above skills would be most suited for what I am looking for?

Feel free to post links to build guides that you think I would be interested in based on my preferences.

Honestly, its more of a personal preference matter then anything else. All of the three builds you mentioned should be able to achieve your goals. I cant give you any info on KB since Ive never played it, altho it probably is the most demanding when it comes to gear (still, no mirror gear needed)

As for LA vs TS comparison, they are quite similar builds rly. LA has better aoe coverage, but TS is more reliable. LA probably also has higher single target dps potential, but needs pierce and frost wall for it. Reflect also should be easier to manage on LA since you are half phys/half lightning, but that also means you cant use poison (which can be quite awesome on TS).

All in all, I would wait for patch notes and see if there is any nerf to LA+FW interaction.

"

Zenhayaraxermaar a écrit :

As for LA vs TS comparison, they are quite similar builds rly. LA has better aoe coverage, but TS is more reliable. LA probably also has higher single target dps potential, but needs pierce and frost wall for it. Reflect also should be easier to manage on LA since you are half phys/half lightning, but that also means you cant use poison (which can be quite awesome on TS).

People keep saying these things and I don't understand why.

LA has better clearspeed and reliability. The aoe is insane, a pack should always go down with one volley when you get enough power (+pierce). The only thing LA is worse at with "ordinary packs" is if there's a single straggler left over (somehow), the raw arrows are less likely to hit the enemy than Tornado Shot's full-screen coverage (which is more likely to leave stragglers in the first place).

OTOH, TS has better single-target on the absolute highest end (even with LA + frost wall, and even before we try to take into account the lost time from actually casting frost wall) because crit poison is insane (if you're aiming right, you're dealing more than 4 times your tooltip DPS per arrow before even factoring in vulnerability--which you should be getting automatically as an on-hit effect, which affects both your base hit and double-dips on your poison damage--and it's full physical/chaos so boss mobs have less resistance on average than they do to LA's damage). And for uber atziri, you have the power of Barrage's full scalability, so unlike with LA (or "pure" TS) you can't accidentally kill yourself on the split phase and said split phase will go down in just 3 traps without you needing to do anything else. The reason an LA build can't scale Barrage as well is hopefully obvious.

The consequences of high-end scaling for LA vs TS should hopefully be obvious to anyone that seriously makes builds. Elemental Damage is easier to scale (WED anyone?) so it has higher single-target on the lower end, but with crit poison, TS's double dipping scales *faster* so as soon as it passes LA there's no going back. With the scaling currently available, TS only has worse single target if you're facing an enemy that gimps your ability to poison them (e.g. curse-immune bosses if you're using TheAmigoReach).

Wait for RoTC nerf then decide.

When RotC gets nerfed, we can still use budget reach, aka Death's Opus. And there I'd definitely go crit poison, the +150% to crit mod is too good to not utilise.

The only people who think Ts is better than LA are those so lazy that clicking one key to cast frostwall is too much of a mental burden.

"

_Zerk_ a écrit :

Wait for RoTC nerf then decide.

There's nothing to retroactively nerf--it's going legacy.

If this is a build for new league, RotC will be nigh-impossible to obtain anyway (if not outright impossible). Bow builds will go back to assuming "good harbingers" for Essence League. But for standard, a legacy reach will be as good as always.

My concern, personally, is that they might nerf crit poison, which is still totally broken for single-target. At least LA needs frost wall interactions to even be comparable for high-end single-target damage.

"

Nephalim a écrit :

The only people who think Ts is better than LA are those so lazy that clicking one key to cast frostwall is too much of a mental burden.

It sounds like someone's too lazy to read my explanation of exactly why TS scales higher than LA _specifically for single-target damage_ even when taking frost wall into account.

LA is indisputably the best pack clearer. I always concede that.

What do people who run LA + Frost Wall do against reflect maps? Also, how is no regen?

"

Slisk a écrit :

What do people who run LA + Frost Wall do against reflect maps? Also, how is no regen?

No regen is easy for these bow builds because you have leech. You're leeching HUGE amounts, even with small values of leech, because the damage itself is huge.

You can handle reflect maps depending on how much leech you're stacking with vaal pact (and watch out for cases of reduced resistance).

I think LA is overall much better than TS. It's ultimate pack clearing tool of destruction - TS have nothing on that. You need 30+ Exalted (current price, 10 Ex in the begining of the League) worth enchant - +2 TS proj - to even come close to LA. With Frost Wall it even wrecks bosses just fine. I am not sure whether Frost Wall will still proc LA in 2.4 though. Maybe GGG will finally fix something? :p

Though both this builds will be incredibly squishy with Ranger and use of Evasion / Dodge for defense, unless you go CI or something weird. You will have to constantly spam your Vinktar and other flasks.

I don't know how to build around KB but if you can get ton of ES and damage without much investment (assuming GGG doesn't nerf this skill lol), you probably will be safer with this.