Why PoE 1 Ascendency Tree seems more fun and bigger than our Asc Tree?

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Riiizzz#4801 a écrit :

The game is still being fleshed out, you are comparing something that has been going for 12 years to something that is not even 1 yet lol relax

That is not about time restrictions, it seems to be a design choice more than anything, and also it doesn't help you guys just making excuses i'm here giving feedback in the feedback forum, you can say that the game is better the way it is, but you should never try to just put my feedback a side just because you disagree. You aren't helping anyone.

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Lonnie455Rich#2087 a écrit :

Poe2 doesn't seem to want too much power in the ascendancy. Thats why you see crossbows and spellcasters on titan. There is nothing on that ascendancy that just says you should use crossbows or spells but its so generic and bland that you can do anything with it.

I do think they did titan really well in this regard and I think it works pretty good for what it is. There is really nothing on titan that just grabs me like rite of ruin used to on berserker before you lost stun immune and movement speed.

Well about the titan i can sure you that people are using him is because of the 50% extra small nodes and % life nodes, i doubt you will see a spellcaster smiter of kitava.

But i also agree that asc shouldn't determine a lot, that's why i'm having doubts about the way it is being done in PoE 2, if we have more nodes it will allow for more options of playstyle, also the lot of "BUT" doesnt help build diversity since you need to stay close to that side of the tree to overweight the "BUT" with nodes that "remove" it.

One Asc that i believe is ALMOST perfect is the Bloodmage, it works with a lot of builds, the only problem is the spell specific nodes on the left side, if that have bonuses like "Your damage have 10% critical chance except for spells that have 15% critical chance" and "You leech 5% the damage caused/ + 100% Leech amount for spells" i would consider it perfect.

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iHiems#0168 a écrit :

You gain 1% more cold damage but you need to do 10 push ups every time you attack

Also you will receive 50% more damage while in the skill animation

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karsey#2995 a écrit :

Spoiler

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ReiCoringa96#2002 a écrit :

Why the new game have a smaller asc tree and more important a lot of nodes with a big "BUT" in the end?

Nodes like "Physical damage reduction from armour is based on your combined armour and evasion rating" BUT "50% less evasion rating"

"You gain spirit for every ES or Evasion on Body Armour" BUT "you cannot gain spirit from ANY Equipment"

"You gain darkness mechanic" BUT "You have no spirit"

"You gain x bonuses when picking up this remment" BUT "You can only see remment 3m in front of you and you need to almost touch then to pick then up.

"Chaos damage contributes to elementals ailments" BUT "Only one elements per time and the order is random and can't be controlled in any form"

"Life flasks are not removed when life is filled" BUT "You can't queue then"

"You gain a concoction skill" BUT "it will consume a LOT of flask charges to do almost anything"

"Double the amount of poisons" BUT "35% less duration"

"Double the Evasion from Helmet, gloves and boots" BUT "Halves Body Armour Evasion"

These are some examples, why do we have that amount of "BUT" while receiving less options to work with? Do GGG plans to expand the Asc Tree when the game launches or something like that?

There's lots of reasons, it's called opportunity cost. It's a necessary part of design. You just feel bad because it's explicitly in the wording. Having it in the wording this way enables them to keep the cost directly on the opportunity instead of having it be "built-in" in other indirect ways - it's mostly a mindset issue.

For example:

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Nodes like "Physical damage reduction from armour is based on your combined armour and evasion rating" BUT "50% less evasion rating"

This could just as easily say "half of your evasion is now armour" for a similar effect. Most people would assume you just split evasion into two equal parts, and one is now armour.

What the wording the way it is in the tree does is explicitly maintain that distinction so that you get full scaling from increased evasion investment and not bonus scaling from increased evasion AND armour investment.

Sorry, i wasn't clear enough, my problem isn't for it to lower the evasion, but how much it lowers it by, the node is in NO circumstance a positive option to take because it lowers the Evasion a ton, which is, in the lack of better word, FUCKING NUTS.

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Xzorn#7046 a écrit :

I mentioned this a few time. Majority of Ascendancy options can just be dumbed down to generic damage. It's not really just PoE2 though. Poe1 has had problems with "This is the bleed Ascendancy" or just generic number options as well. They have trouble finding a middle ground.

I've always felt Slayer and Trickster were good designs. There's enough to feel unique but not enough to define how you play them or what skills you pick. Inquisitor is about my limit.

Well... you can say it about the entire passive tree, i do agree that we need a more thematic thing in each class, like the invoke with the Unbound Avatar or the Concotions, but i dont believe that any of these things should have a downside, they should complement your build and not limit it.

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ReiCoringa96#2002 a écrit :

it doesn't help you guys just making excuses i'm here giving feedback in the feedback forum, you can say that the game is better the way it is, but you should never try to just put my feedback a side just because you disagree. You aren't helping anyone.

i think you need to look at the "feedback" that is regularly posted in this forum. I'm not saying this is how yours is because it's not, but a lot of the feedback here is some random problem wrapped in melodramatic whining.

So I mean speaking for myself I really like this game and I find it a little annoying when people come on this forum with petty demands and insult the developers and things, rather than having some constructive feedback or discussion on the game. If you think about it GGG is building the car while they're driving it and you have a bunch of people going "This blue is too teal, this car is literally undrivable". And idk it's like I'm sorry you feel that way? Maybe go do something else... what else do you really want? Of course then GGG goes and makes the car less teal and people complain now it's not teal enough...

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Xzorn#7046 a écrit :

It's not really just PoE2 though. Poe1 has had problems with "This is the bleed Ascendancy" or just generic number options as well. They have trouble finding a middle ground.

Thing is, that's not a problem.

If any ascendency works for any build, lacking anything distinct enough to connect them to builds, then there may as well not be ascensions since they clearly aren't doing anything to really care about.

Once picking the starting premise of a build you want to make, there ought to be a basis / some bases for where to go from there.

I don't want to decide I'm making a bleed build, only to then have no reason to pick any character(s) over the others, giving me no path for what to actually do with my bleed build.
I want to decide I'm doing a bleed build, then look at the ascensions, and be able to say "ok this/these are the bleed ascension(s)" giving me a reason to make a choice.
Then the other features of that ascension, since the bleed nodes in the tree won't take all my points, can provide further direction on what else to do with my build.

Alternatively, maybe the first choice of my build plan was the ascension.
If the ascension is a general fit for anything, I have no basis for actually making any particular build, and probably won't end up making that character, because once I have chosen a build type, one of the other ascensions is probably better and I'll switch.
So every ascension should have something in it pushing a specific path, to give direction of what to do if the ascension was the first thing you chose.

And finally, conversely, there should also be ascensions that do have node options that are generalized, helpful for anything, so that if a player chooses a build type that doesn't coincide with any ascension, they can still take the general ascension to prevent ascending from being pointless.

Titan. Titan is well designed on two fronts.

Titan has a plain boost to all small nodes.
So any build that isn't tied to another ascension can pick Titan and still get a real boost. There's no thorn ascension, but at least you can boost the small thorn nodes.
Honestly, there should be a version of that in all 3 starting points on the tree. Not necessarily the same affect as Titan's, but an effect for "if you want a build for these things from the str/int/dex section of the passive tree that isn't featured in an ascension, there's this universal str/int/dex ascension path here to give you a benefit."

Meanwhile, if the players first choice was "I'm making a Titan" they have direction for their build because Titan has paths for slams, stuns, and armor stacking. So after picking Titan I'd decide to make a slamming stun build.