POE2 Balancing Around Items or Characters? LoL Example

I'm using League of Legends as an analogy. No, League of Legends is not POE2.

POE2 balance currently feels like Items > Gem Levels > Skill Tree. I have some perspective on balancing in League of Legends that concerns me about the direction of POE2. First, I want to define a few issues I see with POE2:
1. The skill tree is underwhelming and weak.
2. Weapon DPS in the early game is the easiest way to feel stronger.
3. +Gem level on your gear is very powerful and necessary.

Balancing the game around the character/champion has lead to the best balance in League of Legends history. When the game was balanced around items was some of the least balanced the game has every been.

Balancing Around Items

https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/preseason-2021-gameplay-plans/
Preseason 2021 Gameplay Plans: TLDR they wanted the new item changes to do the following: purchasing is quick and intuitive, more strategic decisions, exciting ways to master, epically powerful, iconic items are retained.

https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/quick-gameplay-thoughts-addressing-mythics/
Quick Gameplay Thoughts: Addressing Mythics, 2023:

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“As a result, we intend to reduce the power of items that were previously Mythic when converting them to Legendary, rather than bring the power of Legendaries up to where Mythics are today.” (RIOT, 2023)

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“This will make some individual items less exciting across the board, but will ultimately mean that individual champions’ kits and their differences will shine more, players will have more flexibility to craft builds, and items will feel like they fit champions better.” (RIOT, 2023)

Much of the community sentiment was that you’re playing the items, not the champions. This was the most common response to the dislike of the item system and fundamentally broke the game. Overall the items were fun but the system was flawed. You could give abilities to champions that were never designed for that champion and break the game. Example: Jhin with Galeforce, Renekton with Prowler's Claw.

Balancing Around Champions

https://x.com/RiotPhroxzon/status/1952586599868551552
Strong Balance Allows For Creative Freedom: Riot Phroxzon is the lead gameplay designer and ironically now that game is balanced he's able to add fun and creative ways for champions to play the game. Additions to the Jungle like Qiyana, Sylas, Sion, and Nautilus are allowing players to be more creative in the way they play their champs and in different roles.

In pro play we see Fearless Draft where champions played in the previous game (within the series) cannot be played again for future games (i.e. champions played in game #1 cannot be played in games #2-5). The variety of champions being picked is higher than ever due to Fearless Draft but also the ability to actually play that many champions in the series is enabled by the balance. There is still a meta (just like there will be in POE2) but the amount of viable options is more than the game has every had before.

Finals Thoughts
Items > Gem Levels > Skill Tree should be flipped so that you can progress through the campaign, but in late game this is a good balance. POE2 should increase the strength of the skill tree and the power of each character (weapons skills) while making items and gem levels less impactful early if needed for balance reasons. Having impactful items do matter but for a smoother leveling experience in the early game without depending on rng/luck and gambling for +3 skill gems. Additionally, based on the League of Legends example we should be able to pick any character and feel like the game is playable.

Here is the problem with flipping the "Items > Gem Levels > Skill Tree" formula.

During the early game (levels 1-12) you will not have enough talent points to justify a strong build.

During late game, the accumulated value of nodes will be so high that you either have to buff monster past PoE 1 power level non sense or invalidate items, which represents a core drive in what keeps players hooked in the game.

So...what you are saying regarding online RPGs is unfeasible and bordering ridiculous because modern gaming is based around chasing items whereas games like League of Legends are centered around getting leader board points or elo points to gain bragging rights over assumed deep understanding of gameplay mechanics and not get carried around like a princess on daddy's shoulders.

just nerf items. Both progression (diffrence between early bases and later bases) and nerf high-end affixes.

Currently Items >>>>>> gems >> tree

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draco359#5475 a écrit :

Here is the problem with flipping the "Items > Gem Levels > Skill Tree" formula.

During the early game (levels 1-12) you will not have enough talent points to justify a strong build.

During late game, the accumulated value of nodes will be so high that you either have to buff monster past PoE 1 power level non sense or invalidate items, which represents a core drive in what keeps players hooked in the game.

So...what you are saying regarding online RPGs is unfeasible and bordering ridiculous because modern gaming is based around chasing items whereas games like League of Legends are centered around getting leader board points or elo points to gain bragging rights over assumed deep understanding of gameplay mechanics and not get carried around like a princess on daddy's shoulders.

Your criticism of League of Legends as a game literally has nothing to do with the point of this post so I'll ignore that last part.

"During the early game (levels 1-12) you will not have enough talent points to justify a strong build." Is valid and would require change on how the first set of points skill into. The game needs to be less reliant on early item drops (rares/uniques) even if that means buffing the start while maintaining challenging boss fights.

As for late game it would be about scaling and there is some power creep with a stronger tree, but if items and gem levels are not scaling as hard it'll keep it from being a breeze. Might have to buff starting maps but they're currently nerfing the density of monsters in T1-14, so extra power through the tree is good.

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vzmNitie#2139 a écrit :

just nerf items. Both progression (diffrence between early bases and later bases) and nerf high-end affixes.

Currently Items >>>>>> gems >> tree

I agree with your take on how to handle items, but I'd like the skill tree to be stronger and be able to lean on that for leveling more than gambling +3 skill gem rolls all campaign.