Did GGG mistakenly go against their own design goals?

The primary design goal for leagues, as stated by GGG, is to experiment with new ideas without being locked into having to keep that new content. This allows them to take bigger risks with their ideas.

At the end of a league they could:

- roll it into the core game essentially as is (Essence, Abyss, etc)
- have it recur as a zana mod (Perandus, Harbinger, etc)
- have a portion of the league mechanics available is some minor way (Talisman, Tempest, etc)
- hold it out until it can be reworked into something better and reintroduced (Beastiary)
- drop it completely (Legacy)


But didn't the way they dropped the old master crafting system and plan the introduction of the new masters and new crafting systems go against that design goal?

A vocal portion of the players did not like Betrayal and a vocal portion of the players do not like Synthesis. Yet, GGG pretty much tied their own hands in that no matter how those leagues turned out, they had to keep them because the replacement crafting systems are so tightly bound to that content.

I hope they learn from what to me looks like a pretty big mistake.

Betrayal Was annoying
synthesis is waste of time
only financial numbers can teach them to not do the same mistakes again.

They shot themselves in the foot by tying critical mechanic like crafting (unveiling) with league mechanic, Betrayal. Before they even let players experience the game, they decided to make the mechanic go core WITHOUT judging how the community felt about the league. And even if they looked at the feedback and the complaints about the league, they can't simply scrap it because they made unveiling tied to syndicates.

They got overconfident, and now they're paying for it.

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ZwAWtheSleepingOne a écrit :

Betrayal Was annoying
synthesis is waste of time
only financial numbers can teach them to not do the same mistakes again.

They seems to have financial boom right now.
Because of expanding to consoles and china market.

Ofc, financial managers will present it to their lords as a succes of the development strategy and team design decisions.

But this one is the first look boom. I`m not sure it will last long. Not more than year or two, until players hit those design issues in numbers we all see already, as experienced ones.

But this might be too late already.
Such a story.

It all depends on what the Chinese version looks like or will look like, because it is the final target, from financial point of view too. International players are only beta testers for this correct Chinese version of PoE, where such features like AH was already implemented, with numerous tools in the style of Pay to Win. So if you pay, you can avoid death penalty there, you can bring back to life your HC character too, for money of course.

Such things would of course not be well received by most "international players". That's why their role is a bit different now. If it is possible to earn on them, it's great, but their main task is to be a very wide range of free beta testers. In this way, Chinese users have a chance to get a uniform product, free from bugs and consistent with the expectation of the "average player".

That's why all the next "leagues", "extensions" or other "super additions" (however pompously they decide to name them) in fact will be a testing ground for the right version of the game, with the difference that the right version will not be either "standard" or "international version", only the version with more than one billion potential customers. Thank you for your support!

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postrach_myszy a écrit :

It all depends on what the Chinese version looks like or will look like, because it is the final target, from financial point of view too. International players are only beta testers for this correct Chinese version of PoE, where such features like AH was already implemented, with numerous tools in the style of Pay to Win. So if you pay, you can avoid death penalty there, you can bring back to life your HC character too, for money of course.

Such things would of course not be well received by most "international players". That's why their role is a bit different now. If it is possible to earn on them, it's great, but their main task is to be a very wide range of free beta testers. In this way, Chinese users have a chance to get a uniform product, free from bugs and consistent with the expectation of the "average player".

That's why all the next "leagues", "extensions" or other "super additions" (however pompously they decide to name them) in fact will be a testing ground for the right version of the game, with the difference that the right version will not be either "standard" or "international version", only the version with more than one billion potential customers. Thank you for your support!

Dude, you know that the chines version is developed by a different company independandly? Check your facts first, mate - thanks.

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postrach_myszy a écrit :

It all depends on what the Chinese version looks like or will look like, because it is the final target, from financial point of view too. International players are only beta testers for this correct Chinese version of PoE, where such features like AH was already implemented, with numerous tools in the style of Pay to Win. So if you pay, you can avoid death penalty there, you can bring back to life your HC character too, for money of course.

Such things would of course not be well received by most "international players". That's why their role is a bit different now. If it is possible to earn on them, it's great, but their main task is to be a very wide range of free beta testers. In this way, Chinese users have a chance to get a uniform product, free from bugs and consistent with the expectation of the "average player".

That's why all the next "leagues", "extensions" or other "super additions" (however pompously they decide to name them) in fact will be a testing ground for the right version of the game, with the difference that the right version will not be either "standard" or "international version", only the version with more than one billion potential customers. Thank you for your support!

Hmm... because of Tencent owning 70% stock interest in GGG it is an interesting (food for thought) speculation that international version of PoE (non-Chinese) is just a beta testing for what Tencent will put into their own version for Chinese players after being debugged/polished. To think that GGG is ok with the way too short 3 month development cycle but pushes out that league anyway and makes all non-Chinese players be beta testers so GGG can make fixes during the first month just for Tencent to then introduce to Chinese players as polished content, that's unconscionable. If GGG is really doing that then I'd just about totally quit playing and never buy another mtx ever again (GGG would lose me financially forever). But this is pure speculation (maybe even tin-foil hat worthy) and could never be validated. Certainly Chris and company would never admit to doing that (obviously) just because Tencent is their overlord and GGG is being strong armed. But if Chinese PoE is developed by a completely different company and isn't just taking what GGG codes and reworks for Chinese market doesn't hold any credibility. I do find it hard to believe that the Chinese PoE company would be coding completely independent of GGG coders (that makes no sense). One thing for sure is that we'll never know.

But to the extent that GGG is pushing out new leagues in such a poor beta code state (sometimes even alpha), it does make me wonder if this scenario has some validity. I've always thought that 3 months is woefully short on time to do proper testing/debugging/polishing and Synthesis League just validates this thinking with needing to get to patch 3.6.3 to get better QoP . We still have Incursion performance problems (cancer that needs to be surgically removed) but my theory/testing on this is that PoE is now large enough is size that 8 GB total computer memory isn't enough and we must make the jump to 16 GB ram as the requirement to play PoE today. See my thread for more.

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Monster_T a écrit :

Dude, you know that the chines version is developed by a different company independandly? Check your facts first, mate - thanks.

Oh... how cute. Path of Exile. Two independant teams? Really? And what? An international team does not communicate the results of their work and tests to the Chinese team? So both teams create whatever they want?
But maybe you're right. It's probably the same as with American cars. Those that drive on US highways are called Chevrolet, those in Iraq and Afghanistan - Abrams but it's basically identical cars, maybe slightly adapted to the local market :P

Honestly they should just allow you to lock in ALL master spawns and appearances on the atlas to a preferred master.

If you want only Jun spawns in maps, you should be able to exclude all the extraneous Zana, Einhar, and Alva trash until you've gotten what you want out of Syndicate.
(Then once you've got all the unveils you want you just lock out everyone except Niko of course ;)

Synthesis crafting is just trash so far. I've never before seen something that was both such blatant power creep, as well as exclusionary to 99.99% of the playerbase.

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urza1234 a écrit :

Honestly they should just allow you to lock in ALL master spawns and appearances on the atlas to a preferred master.

If you want only Jun spawns in maps, you should be able to exclude all the extraneous Zana, Einhar, and Alva trash until you've gotten what you want out of Syndicate.
(Then once you've got all the unveils you want you just lock out everyone except Niko of course ;)

Synthesis crafting is just trash so far. I've never before seen something that was both such blatant power creep, as well as exclusionary to 99.99% of the playerbase.

No, it's not powercreep. Powercreep is when a new powerful feature makes the old things obsolete. The synthesis crafting does NOT make the old gear obsolete, becasue the old gear is a necessary stepping stone to achieving high end synthesis gear. It's not powercreep becasue they each occupy their own nspace and the old gear which has a lower ceiling for power, IS STILL VERY RELEVANT within this enviornment.