Emberwake usage? Can it be powerful, even broken?

Two questions:

1. If I hit three enemies with Fireball and inflict an ignite on all three AND those ignites proliferate, they each have three burns affecting them, correct?

2. If I'm using Incinerate + Cast While Channeling + Firestorm, I'm hitting every 0.1 seconds from Incinerate, and every 0.1 seconds from about four Firestorms every second over an area-basically roughly five hits every 0.1 seconds. With ~50% chance to ignite, I'm getting about 25 ignites on an enemy every second, for a total average of 100 over four seconds. Wouldn't this ignite/burn be insanely powerful?

Edit:

I've begun testing and I cannot tell definitely, so I'm doubting the use for this item beyond using it with The Taming. I did testing on Voll in Dried Lake, and with DPS that should be noticeably low in it's own right. The build up for incinerate-firestorm with Iron Will and Mokou's is the same with Chance to Ignite and Emberwake.

Hopefully I'm doing something wrong?

To start with, mathematically, you're going to need to make sure enemies are getting at least five ignites on them before dying for EW to have a net positive effect on your damage.

Your problem could be that, like Poison, it's only really noticeable once you've double and triple-dipped the damage to a really high level. Dealing a bit more ignite damage isn't all that big of a deal when without EW your ignite is pretty small in the first place.

Some options for dipping and ignite sources:

-Writhing Jar. It may not longer be useful for wormblasters, but dumping one or two jars worth of worms and prolifering a powerful burn off each of them can double or triple the amount of burn damage a non EW build could do.

-Make sure your EE comes from Elementalist, since the less damage mod conflicts with your double dipping goals.

-Typical double dipping strategies; favoring gems that can double dip, pimping resist reduction, and getting as high of an increased damage modifier as possible.

-Maybe switch to a fire-converted Vortex for more double dip modifiers and an easier way to get it up there?

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gilrad a écrit :

To start with, mathematically, you're going to need to make sure enemies are getting at least five ignites on them before dying for EW to have a net positive effect on your damage.

I already clearly stated that.

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gilrad a écrit :

Your problem could be that, like Poison, it's only really noticeable once you've double and triple-dipped the damage to a really high level. Dealing a bit more ignite damage isn't all that big of a deal when without EW your ignite is pretty small in the first place.

Not quite.

Burns last for four seconds, without considering applicable modifiers. This means Emberwake is adding 20% of 20% of your initial damage per second for four seconds, or a total of 16% of your initial hit as DPS.

Just noticed something. With that, you would have to get six ignites for it to begin benefitting your burn damage. Not five.

But basically Emberwake is adding 16% of your fire damage as DPS per second per ignite you inflict. With some 25 ignites, that means I'm supposed to be getting some 400% of my DPS as burning for an average four seconds.

That's quite a bit without considering dipping potential.

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gilrad a écrit :

Writhing Jar. It may not longer be useful for wormblasters, but dumping one or two jars worth of worms and prolifering a powerful burn off each of them can double or triple the amount of burn damage a non EW build could do.

It's the only way to do wormblasters. Hence the name.

Anyways, you'd have to make use of the Southbound gloves to make them really powerful, so they stay alive with increasing amounts of burns to proliferate off of.

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gilrad a écrit :

Make sure your EE comes from Elementalist, since the less damage mod conflicts with your double dipping goals.

Elemental Equilibrium would hurt the idea. You're casting fire spells, two of them (one directly and the other indirectly). EE would subvert that.

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gilrad a écrit :

Typical double dipping strategies; favoring gems that can double dip, pimping resist reduction, and getting as high of an increased damage modifier as possible.

Really? Vague much?

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gilrad a écrit :

Maybe switch to a fire-converted Vortex for more double dip modifiers and an easier way to get it up there?

Blade Vortex is not a channeled skill, so it cannot replace Incinerate. It is also not as effective as Firestorm, so it cannot replace that. There is no other skill used to inflict ignites, nor room for another skill to inflict ignites, etc.

Incinerate is used as it can "hit" and do so every 0.1-0.12 seconds, and it comes with a hefty "more" modifier.

Firestorm is used since it has duration, which scales considerably well with passive tree duration nodes. It also inherently hits every 0.1 seconds (not necessary the same enemy) over a fairly nice area. It thus inflicts ignites often.

Blade Vortex has limited range, especially compared to Firestorm, requires the IAoE support to begin being viable (or Empire's Grasp...wait, that requires the Knockback support)-yeah, not good.

Believe me, I've tried BV. But the damage and hit rate are lacking, but the main issue is AOE. It requires massive IAOE to be really useful.

It can become really strong with proliferation. I was using it successfully with Elementalist Oro flicker and Dyadian Dawn.. worked well even without The Taming

Doesn't southbound effect get bypassed by dot effects?

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FCK42 a écrit :

Doesn't southbound effect get bypassed by dot effects?

of course it does. it specifically mentions "hits"

Oh, and OP: you misunderstood gilrad. He wasn't talking about blade vortex, he meant vortex. Ghose two are different skills. Vortex is pretty much ice nova with higher damage, a dot+chill ground effect, lower mana cost, 0.1 sec higher cast time and the possibility to scale dots caused by it with spell damage.